diff --git a/server/AyaNova/Controllers/UserController.cs b/server/AyaNova/Controllers/UserController.cs
index df004085..586696dd 100644
--- a/server/AyaNova/Controllers/UserController.cs
+++ b/server/AyaNova/Controllers/UserController.cs
@@ -77,13 +77,11 @@ namespace AyaNova.Api.Controllers
             var o = await biz.GetAsync(id);
             if (o == null)
                 return NotFound(new ApiErrorResponse(ApiErrorCode.NOT_FOUND));
-
-            bool IsOutsideUser = (o.UserType == UserType.Customer || o.UserType == UserType.HeadOffice);
-
-            if (IsOutsideUser && !AllowedOutsideUser)
+         
+            if (o.IsOutsideUser && !AllowedOutsideUser)
                 return StatusCode(403, new ApiNotAuthorizedResponse());
 
-            if (!IsOutsideUser && !AllowedInsideUser)
+            if (!o.IsOutsideUser && !AllowedInsideUser)
                 return StatusCode(403, new ApiNotAuthorizedResponse());
 
             return Ok(ApiOkResponse.Response(o));
diff --git a/server/AyaNova/biz/UserBiz.cs b/server/AyaNova/biz/UserBiz.cs
index 7025c6cd..d5a42342 100644
--- a/server/AyaNova/biz/UserBiz.cs
+++ b/server/AyaNova/biz/UserBiz.cs
@@ -115,18 +115,28 @@ namespace AyaNova.Biz
         //CREATE        
         internal async Task<dtUser> CreateAsync(User newObject)
         {
+
+            //Also used for Contacts (customer type user or ho type user)
+            //by users with no User right but with Customer rights so need to double check here
+            if (
+                (newObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasCreateRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.Customer)) ||
+                (!newObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasCreateRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.User))
+                )
+            {
+                AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_AUTHORIZED);
+                return null;
+            }
+
+
             //password and login are optional but in the sense that they can be left out in a PUT
             // but if left out here we need to generate a random value instead so they can't login but the code is happy
             //because a login name and password are required always 
             if (string.IsNullOrWhiteSpace(newObject.Password))
-            {
                 newObject.Password = Hasher.GenerateSalt();//set it to some big random value
-            }
 
             if (string.IsNullOrWhiteSpace(newObject.Login))
-            {
                 newObject.Login = Hasher.GenerateSalt();//set it to some big random value
-            }
+
 
             //This is a new user so it will have been posted with a password in plaintext which needs to be salted and hashed
             newObject.Salt = Hasher.GenerateSalt();
@@ -173,6 +183,18 @@ namespace AyaNova.Biz
                 AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_FOUND, "id");
                 return null;
             }
+
+            //Also used for Contacts (customer type user or ho type user)
+            //by users with no User right but with Customer rights so need to double check here
+            if (
+                (dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasCreateRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.Customer)) ||
+                (!dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasCreateRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.User))
+                )
+            {
+                AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_AUTHORIZED);
+                return null;
+            }
+
             User newObject = new User();
             CopyObject.Copy(dbObject, newObject, "Id, Salt, Login, Password, CurrentAuthToken, DlKey, DlKeyExpire, Wiki, Serial");
             string newUniqueName = string.Empty;
@@ -236,6 +258,18 @@ namespace AyaNova.Biz
                 AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_FOUND, "id");
                 return null;
             }
+            //Also used for Contacts (customer type user or ho type user)
+            //by users with no User right but with Customer rights so need to double check here
+            if (
+                (dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasModifyRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.Customer)) ||
+                (!dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasModifyRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.User))
+                )
+            {
+                AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_AUTHORIZED);
+                return null;
+            }
+
+
             User SnapshotOfOriginalDBObj = new User();
             CopyObject.Copy(dbObject, SnapshotOfOriginalDBObj);
             CopyObject.Copy(putObject, dbObject, "Id, Salt, CurrentAuthToken, LoginKey, DlKey, DlKeyExpire");
@@ -398,12 +432,25 @@ namespace AyaNova.Biz
         internal async Task<bool> DeleteAsync(long id)
         {
 
-
             using (var transaction = await ct.Database.BeginTransactionAsync())
             {
                 try
                 {
                     User dbObject = await ct.User.SingleOrDefaultAsync(z => z.Id == id);
+                    if (dbObject == null)
+                        return false;
+
+                    //Also used for Contacts (customer type user or ho type user)
+                    //by users with no User right but with Customer rights so need to double check here
+                    if (
+                        (dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasDeleteRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.Customer)) ||
+                        (!dbObject.IsOutsideUser && !Authorized.HasDeleteRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.User))
+                        )
+                    {
+                        AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_AUTHORIZED);
+                        return false;
+                    }
+
                     await ValidateCanDelete(dbObject);
                     if (HasErrors)
                         return false;
@@ -448,12 +495,25 @@ namespace AyaNova.Biz
         private async Task ValidateAsync(User proposedObj, User currentObj)
         {
             //skip validation if seeding
-            if(ServerBootConfig.SEEDING) return;
+            if (ServerBootConfig.SEEDING) return;
 
             //run validation and biz rules
             bool isNew = currentObj == null;
 
-
+            //UserType change has Inside / Outside role implications
+            //a user attempting to change a UserType between inside or outside status must have the correct rights
+            //to *BOTH* Customer and User since it's affecting both types
+            if (currentObj.IsOutsideUser != proposedObj.IsOutsideUser)
+            {
+                //only can change if have both rights
+                if (
+                    !Authorized.HasModifyRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.User) ||
+                    !Authorized.HasModifyRole(CurrentUserRoles, AyaType.Customer)
+                )
+                {
+                    AddError(ApiErrorCode.NOT_AUTHORIZED, "UserType");
+                }
+            }
 
             //do we need to check the license situation?
             if (proposedObj.IsTech && proposedObj.Active)
diff --git a/server/AyaNova/models/User.cs b/server/AyaNova/models/User.cs
index 232677da..88586a2f 100644
--- a/server/AyaNova/models/User.cs
+++ b/server/AyaNova/models/User.cs
@@ -35,6 +35,14 @@ namespace AyaNova.Models
         [NotMapped, JsonIgnore]
         public AyaType AyaType { get => AyaType.User; }
 
+        public bool IsOutsideUser
+        {
+            get
+            {
+                return this.UserType == UserType.Customer || this.UserType == UserType.HeadOffice;
+            }
+        }
+
         // [JsonIgnore]//hide from being returned (as null anyway) with User object in routes
         // public UserOptions UserOptions { get; set; }
     }//eoc
@@ -114,6 +122,15 @@ namespace AyaNova.Models
             }
         }
 
+        public bool IsOutsideUser
+        {
+            get
+            {
+                return this.UserType == UserType.Customer || this.UserType == UserType.HeadOffice;
+            }
+        }
+
+
         [NotMapped, JsonIgnore]
         public AyaType AyaType { get => AyaType.User; }